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Word to the Wise (Tim Wise, that is)
by Shannon Joyce Prince
"The conflation of aesthetics with morality,
geography with intelligence, and class with worth is just as foul coming from
Tim Wise as it is coming from Bill Cosby."
In writing to condemn an attitude held by a white
anti-racist activist I respect, I must begin with the words of William Lloyd
Garrison, another white activist who is his intellectual antecedent. Garrison said, "Little boldness is needed to assail the opinions
and practices of notoriously wicked men; but to rebuke great and good men for
their conduct, and to impeach their discernment, is the highest effort of moral
courage." Tim Wise is clearly a great
and good man and one of the nation's foremost anti-racist activists, yet his
recent blog post "This
is how fascism comes: reflections on the cost of silence" reveals not only
a powerful lack of discernment but also an intolerably ugly hatefulness.
I'll
address the lack of discernment first.
In an election between two men who have voiced smiling, unequivocal
commitment to apartheid Israel, who each, while congressmen, voted to enlarge
the scale of the war in Iraq, one of whom considers Vietnamese people to be
g**ks, the other of whom merrily assures America that racism is 90% over and
repeatedly chastises blacks for being lazy whiners who feed their children cold
fried chicken for breakfast, Tim Wise claims that fascism will come because of
the sentiments of those who support McCain as opposed to Obama. Clearly, when these are the only two viable choices
fascism is already here. Indeed, the
original definition of fascism was a strong coalition between business and
government, yet many labor under the delusion that because we get to pick which
of two men preselected by oligarchic CEOs and sponsored by Wall Street's most
powerful corporations will run the country, we have a democracy. We don't get to question the system, just
who runs it. The media makes so much of
this small choice to hide the fact that it is the only choice we are
permitted. By portraying voting as a
civic duty, as opposed to a quick, infrequent ritual, citizens are relieved of
their real, quotidian duties to their society.
In such a context, voting for Obama over McCain is not choosing the
lesser of two evils, it's simply the perpetuation of an evil system that
succeeds as an illusion because one candidate is allowed a more progressive
guise than the other.
"To cruelly mock those whose way of life is
different from your own and to ascribe to such people all the failings of
American society is hateful and unacceptable."
However,
what filled me with such visceral disgust at "This is how fascism comes" is the
full flowering of a usually subtle prejudice I've tried to overlook in Tim
Wise's writings since they are otherwise intelligent, well researched,
insightful, and compassionate. This
prejudice is the conflation of aesthetics with morality, geography with
intelligence, and class with worth that is just as foul coming from Tim Wise as
it is coming from Bill Cosby. There's
no need for me to enumerate all the stereotypical qualities of a fascist that
Tim Wise lists: wearing "What Would Jesus Do" bracelets, being a Nascar fan,
living in a small town, drinking Pabst beer, etc. Suffice it to say that almost everything he lists has no bearing
on how intelligent, morally sound, politically astute, or racist or anti-racist
someone is. Furthermore, the list is
unnuanced. No distinction is made, for
example, between feeling homosexual acts are wrong and being homophobic, or
between being a devout student of the Bible and using distortions of the Bible
as a way to mistreat others. To cruelly
mock those whose way of life is different from your own and to ascribe to such
people all the failings of American society is hateful and unacceptable -
particularly from someone who considers himself liberal and progressive.
As someone who lives in a white gated
community, grew up surrounded by multi-degreed adults (including both of my
parents), and attended a predominantly white, college preparatory, private
school from kindergarten through twelfth grade in one of America's largest
cities before entering Dartmouth College, an Ivy League university in New
Hampshire, America's second whitest state, I can say with confidence that
almost all the bigots I've met have been well read, well traveled, and well
off. Some of them even voted Democrat
and were addicted to the Colbert Report.
All of them were too savvy to sell Obama Waffles, too eloquent to use
the "n-word," and too stylish to sport a trucker cap, but they were bigots all
the same.
"Almost all the bigots I've met have been
well read, well traveled, and well off."
Similarly,
many of the most articulate (which is not to say grammatical) and radical
(which doesn't mean they read Counterpunch) white people I know have been poor
and/or religious and/or rural white people like the almost entirely white,
rural, lower class non-professional staff at Dartmouth. In discussions I've had with these
individuals I've found them to be adept recognizers of non-white
disenfranchisement, white privilege, and the classism both whites and
non-whites suffer. Many of them
regularly engage in activities such as protesting the sexual abuse suffered by
migrant Mexican female strawberry pickers.
These people are not exceptions to the rule, but evidence of the fact
that all communities produce a diversity of good and evil, wise and
ignorant. They are people who are
always rendered invisible because they have the superficial qualities
progressives like to mock despite possessing the moral values progressives
claim to honor.
I myself fall into at least one of the
demographics Tim Wise attacks - I'm a creationist who believes the world was
literally made in six days. Does that
somehow undermine my anti-racist activism?
Does it make me too stupid to attend Dartmouth? Does it tell you how I treat people, what
books I read, how I vote (hint - I'm not a Republican), where I like to travel,
or what passions stir me? Nothing
unrelated to creationism can be inferred about me from the fact that I'm a
creationist - only ignorant people who rely on stereotypes as opposed to deep
thinking would argue otherwise.
"All communities produce a diversity of good
and evil, wise and ignorant."
It
might seem odd that I am defending white people in Black Agenda Report, but I
do so because of my blackness. While
whiteness was constructed as a way to rob others of their humanity, blackness
has never been about acquiring humanity vampire-style by taking it from
others. It is an expression of both my
blackness and my humanity that I defend the humanity of others.
When
Tim Wise, Joe Baegeant, Barbara Ehrenreich, and so many other "progressives"
dehumanize those who are different and mock the poor, rural, or Christian and
then wonder why the same people they regularly attack as Neanderthals to
ignorant to vote in their own self interest and obsessed with values that are
hollow at best and sinister at worst won't join their political party, they
show that the emperor has no clothes - that the "tolerant" tolerate a very
small spectrum of lifestyles. Tim Wise
is one of the most heroic and courageous anti-racist activists I've ever had the
privilege of reading. In fact, I
frequently cite him as a source in my own writings, inspired by his lucid
work. Unfortunately, neither his
courage nor his heroism make valid or accurate his hate.
Ms. Prince can be contacted
at Shannon.J.Prince@Dartmouth.EDU This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots,
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Comments
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ms. Prince!!!!!!!!!!
No, you are not defending white people, but defending the value of human being!! which so the called leftists (Zmag, actually, Zionist magazine) have no whatsoever respected for what it means to be human. They rather want us to put in lego toy bricks and tell us where we belong.
Ah, you made my day Ms. Prince. Thank you and thank you BAR!
Superficial, Reactionary ...
I tried to follow ur critique though is seemed to ramble...
& then
"I'm a creationist who believes the world was literally made in six days."
So I stopped reading.
but then forced myself to Continue to the conclusion
Sorry my dear but Wise is much Wiser,
& I gotta stand with this John "Wise" Brown.
for indeed:
"This is how fascism comes: reflections on the cost of silence"
Response
I hear what you are saying Shannon Joyce Prince. The fundamentals of your argument make a lot of sense however I feel like I understand what Tim Wise was actually saying and I would not define it as hate!
Now, you said this:
"I myself fall into at least one of the demographics Tim Wise attacks - I'm a creationist who believes the world was literally made in six days."
This is really the issue. This is where I laugh. You see white liberals often times have a negative relationship with religion. I have found this to be the case while an undergrad at Columbia. Many blacks align themselves with those on the left but are very, very Christian.
Does that shock you? Is this the first time that you realized that fundamental values difference between blacks and some whites on the left?
This often creates a clash because white liberals often define Christians as those in the Christian Right any of which are EXTREMELY racist and intolerant.
This fact does not negate that the rich and well off white liberals out here in New York who are often times just as racist.
it is not about race or being a creationist
I live in Denmark and I am a minority (both in religion and race). And I listen to everyday the same view the so called 'leftists, intellectuals, mostly editors' harbour against working class people [or what you call in the US 'white trash' I really hate that term. Even the term lower class which is another way to take dignity from. A lower what?]. It is so disgusting that even the country's leading literature figure has no problem writing poems for dehumanizing these people and even making radio play. And people ask why these people are voting the right wing parties in Europe. What a stupid question! It has nothing to do with immigration or Europia. Have they ever thought about that for the first time since modern democracy was invented that these people, have actually found a political platform which there is no need for petit bourgeoisie lifestyle.
I am not denying that there exists racism and xenophobia, but I am only asking to reflect that if the people behind the dehumanization of Blacks for centuries have succeeded, what makes you think that they can not do they the same against their own people?
White boy's Arguement Much Stronger
Wow sister! That was wack!
From what I see, you over react. And it looks like you're tryin to be slick. As though you want to try entertain us with your critique of the white boy. I think, because most all of your developmental relations have been with white people, you believe you know white people, inside and out. But sorry sister; You don't.
You see the white boy is painting for you a picture. His essay is lettin you see, what white people are thinking and feeling inside. That is why he used all the reference to the different things people do, and different things people use, to represent the type of people who will bring in "Fascism". It just so happens that all those things immediately relate to white people. Don't tell me about the minority of Negroes who do these things too.
I don't know all the white people who have been kind to you in your life, but you don't know all the times those same white people were racist to other Black people when you weren't around. It's like you want us to excuse white people for their racism. These specific people the white boy's referring to ARE Neanderthals; too ignorant to vote in their own self interest.
He also says, Fascism will come specifically from the soil of middle America, from people known as values voters, but whose values are toxic; from simple folk whose simplicity, far from being admirable, is better labeled as ignorance.
The man was trying to say that fascism will be brought in by the "all-American" types whose patriotism is a dagger pointed at the very heart of the national interest, because it forsakes all the best principles upon which the republic was founded, choosing instead to elevate and ratify the narrow-mindedness, the bigotry, and the intolerance that also marked our country's origins.
You see sister, your white friends feel differently about the nature of the founding fathers than we Black people do. The country's origins means something completely different to them, than what it means to you. And those are the origins that they dream of returning to. I always like how this white boy writes though, because he is the most honest brother. What he says is so true. He makes ya know how white people are for real. To me, it seems like you're daydreaming.
Now that I think about it again, the spirit of your critique epitomized for me what a house Negro is. You want us to excuse whites because they're nice to YOU. Pardon me. And seriously. I don't want you to think Anti-Cracker is just being slick, and tryin to entertain people by being insulting to the Black girl, on behalf of the white boy, in front of everybody. I think the main reason, you write like this is because you haven't spent 20 years in pastor Jeremiah Wright's church. Become a follower of Rev Wright. Study his life. Study the life of and works of Henry McNeal Turner. Become a follower of him.
I really do love you sister. What I want to say to you, I will say in a parable, like the Jesus character of the New Testament bible would do. I think afters 400 years, more of less, of racist mistreatment at the hands of Pharaoh and his people, its time that the Hebrew people dropped Pharaoh's religion.
Actual Black liberation can not go forward without the spiritual component being in its popper place. Look sister, this people were Christians when they enslaved our ancestors. Don't tell me about how the slave master's children never own any slaves. I'm not talking about whether they owned slaves or not. I talking about whether they are Christian or not. I know their Jesus God was a white man when they enslaved our kind. I want to know whether their Jesus God is still a white man today, or not. Spare me the BS about how it doesn't matter what colour this Jesus God was. Because it does. You don't believe me, just ask them.
They haven't had to give up their white God, and they still get to be judge of who is a Christian and who is not. What have white racist Christians had to give up in the last 38 years of integration?
Everything about Pharaoh's religion is exactly the same today, as it was the day they captured the first African; brought him into the West; and made him into a slave.
Peace,
Anti-Cracker.
tim wise
i read tim wise`s article. i thought it was very good. as 58 year black male who lives in the rural south i have heard white working / lower / middle class people make pro facist comments over the years. also my mother once worked for a rich lady who hated white trash and democrats and who would probabily support a right wing coup. i once had a neighbor who said she loved my parents and i. when my mother passed away she came to my house and we went to the funeral home together. the next day she came for the funeral and we went together to the funeral .on the way to the graveyard she told me again how much she loved my mother and that we were not like the rest of the black people. race relations are a complicated thing.
Thank you Shannon Joyce Prince
I really enjoyed this article. I don't enjoy some of the comments. SJP believes the world was created in 6 days. She didn't have to toss that out. She was being honest. If you disagree, it's nothing to club her over the head with. It is her belief and it doesn't require that she stereotype others in a negative manner the way Tim Wise has.
SICKOFITRADLZ is a website that regularly addresses the 'helpful' Whites and whether they are helpful to our community or not.
I think SJP took a nicer tact than that website would but I think this is an important article.
Thank you, Shannon Joyce Prince for writing this and sharing it.
What's wrong with condemning racist lifestyle?
"All communities produce a diversity of good and evil, wise and ignorant." This is certainly true but in the larger scope of events Mr. Wise is attempting to expose the specter of white privilege because many white people claim that it does not exist. It does exists and does great harm to people of color all over the world. For you to say that he belittles their lifestyles is to not acknowledge the fact that racism and sexism is part of their lifestyle. Mr. Wise denigrates when it is appropriate. The normal reaction to being told you are wrong is anger and that is the typical white response but that does not mean evil should not be exposed for what it is. Some will change their ways. Many will not. If he said nothing then none would change and where would that leave us except nowhere. The white community produces a much greater level of evil than others simple because whites are in control of the global power structure by force. They've taken almost everything by force and made even masses of white people slaves to their corporate morasses. White people usually care either about race or money, not both. Racism is how poor whites express their hatred of poverty caused by rich whites themselves. I commend Mr. Wise for boldly saying the things other whites refuse to say in the company of others or at all. Like MLK said "Silence eventually becomes complicity".
Appreciate the Viewpoint; Respectfully Disagree
I wanted to stop reading at the all communities produce a diversity of good and evil line but I made it through to the end.
However, that line embodies the essential problem with the article and the entire line of thinking. White supremacy, the offspring of American capitalism, is a real thing. And because it is a real thing we must reject statements that attempt to equate Black and white communities/populations as if we're all just folk now.
That is Bill Cosby-Brookings Institute-John McWhorter-right wing type thinking that isn't worth the paper its printed on or the pixels it consumes. It's just BS. And that BS goes to the heart of your logic problem.
Tim Wise makes assumptions and does venture into stereotypes. Unfortunately, these generalizations are useful fore they don't represent an unfortunate disproportionate number of white folks but alas, they represent the majority of the groups Wise speaks of.
This isn't the same thing that is done to Black people with racist stereotypes and it is an offense to observable and statistical reality for you to assert that it is the same thing and to subsequently label hinm as the racist and hate-mongerer. At the core of your articles thesis and perhaps your thinking is a now common right wing, post-racial motif which implies (but never states) that racism is over and the behavior of the races and the ideas associated with those behaviors can now be measured by the same metrics. This is sloppy thinking.
I don't uncritically give a pass to Wise. I too, think that he could sometimes ease up on the stereotypes (except perhaps when he's attempting humor). But I think he should cut some of the stereotypes because his audience, white well to do folks, only seem to become more arrogant and assured of the anti-racism when they read about the profile of white racists being PBR drinkers in small towns, which his main audience is not.
Tim Wise reminds me of Rolling Stone writer Matt Taiibi. Taiibi's criticisms of the far right get drowned out by his hateful, put-down rhetoric about 'backward Bible thumpers in NASCAR land.' Such vitriol only drives people that one hopes to enlighten further away and into the arms of the stone cold redneck bigots.
Like many white lefties, Wise and Taiibi love to lord their political correctness over those deemed inferior and ignorant as opposed to using constructive criticism and information to educate. At the same time, such lefties give a pass to their own in the media and Democratic party who aid and abet right wing high crimes and misdemeanors that hurt the minorities and poor they claim to care about.
The limousine liberal is alive and well.
Excellent, Enlightening Discussion
A couple of observations. Ms. Prince and others make valid points about the hypocrisy of "limousine liberals." It's a small wonder that the imminent Black Nationalists like Harold Cruse had little time for them.
It's also clear that with the ascendency of the Imus's, Limbaughs, Hannity's, and even "Mr. Independent"- Lou Dobbs, Kristol, Brooks and others, the DC latte drinking right wingers are more dangerous than the red necks. They are the intellectual architects and polemicists for xenophobia and ignorance after all.
On the otherhand, don't get overwrought at Wise's characterizations. After all, isn't this the same verbiage that the red necks and their intellectual mouthpieces assign to the necks? "Nascar dads, hockey moms, soccer moms, Joe Six Pack as opposed to Volvo driving, consumers of latte and sushi?" And now, the hollow, hypocritical "Joe the Plumber" has arrived on the scene.
Don't blame Wise for using the Right Wing's own idioms and cultural referents. Especially when the Right Wing proudly, even belligerently uses the same nomenclature to espouse and define their "differences."
Beverly I agree with you, but (Hunter Thompson wannabe) Taibbi is insightful and funny as hell, somewhat like Bill Maher.
One more thing, take it from a brother who lives in a state with 3% black population. Even working class/working poor whites refer to/distinguish each other with terms like "red neck," "White Trash or Trailor Park Trash," bearing some similarities to the Chris Rock monologue about the differences between Blacks, Negroes, and N@*ggas.
Similar dialogue at truthdig.com
I'd recommend reading Bill Boyarsky's On the Campaign Trail: " A Week in the "Real America" for additional takes on the "culture"/war issues and stereotyping. I found the reader comments especially interesting. Check it out.
BTW, to signal my "opinion" I am not counting McCain out until the votes are counted, (to be consistent and honest, I've predicted a win for him from day one--racism and Diebold.) I don't trust the polls, although a white friend of mine said the Gov. of N.C. claims a "reverse Bradley-effect" might be in play. That is Whites who will vote for him but don't say so for fear of being ostracized. I don't know, I've seen how juries function and it's typically herd instinct and conformity that rules, granted that's a defective "secret ballot" process.
Time will tell. If BO wins it won't be a landslide, guarantee.
I read this , this morning, then had to
re read it tonight.
Cuz I got really irked and wondered all day, is it cuz I am a white radical that really agrees with Wise, and so am mentally defending 'turf' with my 'white radical anti racist' allies by being perturbed? And as an non religious person...am I being reactionary over that?
I think not now. Though your article sure is worthy of post here. Anything that makes us think and argue about race and class, I will learn from.
But it seems to me , his blog was a rant.
Although a fairly on target rant....it is filled with generalizations. We all do that. And then you do that too!...
Im self educated. And have studied fascism very very much...in all it's forms...Italy, spain, germany..and the USA instituted fascism in latin america etc...As well as stalinist fascism..
It is always instituted or pushed forward by the rich landholding class, military in part or whole and the corporate class, but it also always needs a minority of the working class to act as shock troops, and as members of the death squads obviously. In almost every instance, religion was also used to increase the hysteria against the internal 'enemy'.
Having grown up in Ohio, and having an entire family of fascist sympathizers, I agree with his generalizations. And if the WHITES in those generalizations do not agree, then why are those WHITES mingling with these racists, not attacking with mobilized anti fascist/racist non violent FORCE by people power....Why if these generalizations are not spot on for a large minority of whites, are not the anti racist whites 'among them' vocal and organizing. Cuz a large minority of white people in the USA are racist fascist leaning tools of the corporate and religious hierarchies.And they DO fit these stereotypes.So to me, the majority of whites are being fence sitters. Against their own self interest I might add.
If these generalizations offend any of my 'white' comrades, I would say then get thee to the barricades damn it, or screw your whiney ass.
And put a black and red star over that corporate logo on that tired John Deere hat while you're at.
heh.
Thoughts on Wise. pt. 1
I have a mixed reaction to this S.J. Prince article, which made me read the Wise article. Wise is an interesting writer and activist. He’s too bourgeois (see below), moralistic, and self-righteous for my taste, but he’s smart, clever, and genuinely anti-racist.
I'm afraid that a lot of those white NASCAR fascists Wise talks about (in a very unproductive tone) really exist. I see and hear them day in and day out (I must inform you from the extremely Caucasian state of Iowa). He ain't just making those folks up. They are out there and many of them are every bit as toxic as Tim (rather toxically) says There is a real strain of (at least proto-) fascism in the Republican Party and its base, something I recently wrote about on ZNet (“Proto-Fascism: Campaign Observations,†October 17, 2008). And that strain is not the same as Obamaism, which is certainly loaded with its own authoritarian and militarist content.
Wise also said some smart things about the silliness of some Obama supporters thinking everything will be okay if they can get him in the White House. He deserves a little credit for doing that.
But I agree with Ms. Prince (and have for some time) that Wise is plagued by intra-white classism. He misses countervailing non-and even anti-racist/anti-fascist tendencies in the white working class. Those tendencies also exist in the white proletarian “heartland.†I see a lot of that good stuff too in Iowa. We need to be careful about over-generalization in regard to all groups – the white working-class included.
I completely agree with Ms. Prince about the more sophisticated and powerful white supremacism of white professional and business elites, many of whom combine covert racism and covert classism in a world view that leaves room for them to Obama (often in very snotty and self-righteous ways). Wise (who is unfortunately a member of that bourgeois group "Progressives for Obama" along with that ridiculous hack Carl Davidson and Tom Hayden) needs to look more deeply into how the Obama phenomenon too is "Your Nation on White Privilege" (to employ part of the title of an essay he recently did on racial double standards being exploited by the Palin-McCain campaign).
So yes, I agree there is a disturbing and very unhelpful (from a Left perspective) classism in the Wise essay (which does no favors to Obama’s cause by the way) critiqued by Ms. Prince - you betchya.
The ruling class and its manipulations are largely non-existent in Tim’s writing it seems to me. He shows little if any of W.E.B. DuBois’ or Dr. King’s sophisticated sense of how intra-white class disparities generate a less-than-surprising racism amongst many in the white working class (I refer to what DuBois called “the psychological wage of racism†and to what King described as the “feeling that you are somebody just because you’re whiteâ€)...ctd.
Thoughts on Wise. pt. 2
But the main thing here is that Wise does not get the more structurally empowered racism-classism of the middle and upper classes, including many Obamaists. During the long lead-up to the Obama Caucus in Iowa, I spoke with many a white Iowa Obama supporter who combined an advanced degree with a big house and a lot of money and oozing contempt for non-affluent blacks and whites.
Wise doesn’t seem to know about the existence of a state-capitalist ruling class. He needs to get it that if fascism comes to America it will come largely from the top down, through the actions and beliefs of the corporate, financial, and military-industrial elite. He is wasting too much venom on working class people and directing too little at the U.S. power elite. This is a grave and critical error, not to be taken lightly.
Right now I don’t think Tim’s world view is flexible enough to process a white Iowa worker and trade unionist I know who dislikes Obama intensely but who loved Jesse Jackson Sr. when the latter ran in 1988. The way this (fellow) Caucasian labor guy tells it, “Jesse came out here and talked to working people like he really got their situation and issues and knew what the labor movement was all about and why it existed. He was great on the picket line. Obama doesn’t have that. Kucinich had it. Hell, Edwards had it. Some of the guys here won’t vote for Obama just because he’s black. But a lot don’t like him because he’s so damn corporate. There's a bunch who will in fact vote for him because he’s the Democrat and that’s what they do…who wants a Republican back in the White House?â€
This particular “Joe Six Pack†(not a NASCAR fan BTW)is not a racist. He volunteered for Rev.Jackson and may well vote for Obama (to block McCain) at the end of the day. But he would never work for Obama.
In a way he's right
Not that I will endorse stereotyping in any way but let's look at reality, most rural areas do not have the benefit of diverse communities, numerous institutions of higher learning and multiple media outlets with diverse opinions like our urban areas so culturally they are at a disadvantage. While there should be no indictment of creationists most educated people exposed to a strong scientific curicula usually avoid biblical literalism. The us against them mentality is more difficult when living and working in a diverse community when you actually KNOW Muslims and don't fear them as some alien species. While going somewhat overboard Wise does have some validity to his basic argument.
Street begings to see the light at the end of the tunnel and th
I am not sure if Street's two comments truly meant what he wrote or just wants us to believe that he is the type of the person who thinks 'outside the box', which is his living btw.
Anyway, to Mike Askew. Living in rural area does not make you dumb, in fact the trouble makers are often from city people:
How Lee Atwater Perfected the G.O.P.'s Appeal to Racism
Boogiemen
By ISHMAEL REED http://tinyurl.com/6b8pfc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY3XnLv4YpA
'Predictably in the final weeks code terms like Welfare and Socialism are being bellowed by McCain and Palin. These are the standard Atwater tricks. Slithering beneath McCain’s speeches is the idea that Obama is going to take the hard earnings of people like tax dodger, Joe the Plumber, and give it to lazy black people whom whites have been told by the media for decades that blacks receive all of the welfare, when it would take a couple of hundred years for blacks to attain the kind of subsidies and government support that whites have received. If one refers to these appeals as racist, the little Goebbelses surrounding McCain’s campaign would plead innocence, another leaf from the Atwater handbook. Only Rick Davis has expanded the technique by accusing the accusers of racism.'
Back to your dunce corner "gess"
"gess" you already identified yourslef as an abject imbecile when you described Z Magazine as "Zionist" (yes, and 2 2=17).
Your "outside the box" comment (or attempt at a comment)is incoherent and the reference to "his living" is bizarre.
You avoid the key issues in the Prince essay and subsequent discussion and then proceed to lecture readers on the obvious
and well known.
You have demonstrated yet again that you are a mediocre hack who has zero business anywhere near relevant political discourse.
Retreat in shame to your dunce corner and leave the serious discussion to others.
disturbed
Congradulations Joyce. This essay is truly worthy undergraduate work: Fundamentally boring, and in fact, supportive of Tim's thesis. You are attempting to separate the language from the statement, and in the process, you have lost the premise. The entire piece was how we find excuses and reason after reason to mitigate and rationalize racist thinking when we should call it out, forcefully at every turn.
The Unabomber's Manifesto, although much more political, relayed the same idea: The right is devious and the left is impotent to stop them because they are too nice about it.
I live where Tim lives. That pragmatic, disfunctional divided amerika where Don Ismus thinks you are a "nappy headed ho" and we tolerate intelligent, accomplished women referred to in such a manner and where one of the most articulate thinkers in the country is running for president and is daily called "uppity nigga" (re: elitist) and there is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING or ANYONE who cares to exercise a righteous indignation. When there is a glimmer of dissent, an inexperieced school girl fitfully attempts to "slap his wrist" with a petty and illformed, digressive argument.
The pseudo-Marxist argument are true but too vague and appear to interject soley to prove you read the text in first semester polical science.
You get to the meat of you thesis with the accommodationist viewpoint
of the forgiveness associated with your blackness and faith. Very old idea and reminds me of (Marx, again) the opiate of the masses (I almost mistyped massa) where we tolerate in this life because the reward is afterlife. Your faith has clearly colored reason. I'm sorry, but the six day creation belief system makes you a complete idiot. You should spends the day at the Creation Museum in Covington Ky and I assure you, you will see exactly, in large numbers, the voting masses Tim Wise described. What we have here is not subtle prejudice, but a full on frontal assault... which is absolutely the point.
Have you taken any classes in Black American Studies? I would strongly recommend the series. Although, if you were in one of my class, you may not fair so well. I am demanding and you had to be prepared to back up your stuff.
Which brings me the the final point.
I have never,(and I pay close attention) heard Sen Obama "repeatedly chastises blacks for being lazy whiners who feed their children cold fried chicken for breakfast." That notion is, without question, the most eggregiously RACIST statement I have every heard pertaining to the Senator. Can you imagine the field day the media would have if this were evenly remotely true? Yet not one of the additionally commentary made reference to that foul lie. Once again, this is exactly the original Wise thesis: we tolerate IT, we drink IT, we live and breathe IT, to such a degree, it is commonplace, accepted, integrated, normalized, rationalized and, at this point very amerikan.
I realize this is a limited sample, but I am disturbed at the level of achievement at Dartmouth, if the is representative of the academic rigour at that institution. This substandard mess may work with classmate and peers, but if you wish to present yourself as intelligencia, you will have to work much harder. But then again, you may have a bright future as a talking head under the mediocrity principle. Thanks for playing. TS
gess again
Doc Street - thank you for once again telling off that bonafide moron that calls itself gess. Gess has got to be one of the top five all time dumb asses to hang around this zine, calling Z Mag zionist and other such unforgivable foolishness as that. Your comments on Wise are fair and balanced, sir: these white fascists he's talking about can definitely be found in the contemporary reality of Amerika but they are not the whole story of the caucazoid proletariat. And more to the point, he does not get the ruling class (99 percent white to be sure)and its penultimate responsibility for the fascism he wants to pin on big bad Joe Six Pack. This shit is all over the head of a childish buffoon like gess.
TS is not paying attention to basic facts
TS your comments expose shameful ignorance on your part. Obama has repeatedly chastised poor blacks for their alleged bad culture and laziness. (That's obviously the basic point behind the cold chicken language...though actually His Holiness the Dali Obama may well have specified foods in his victim-blaming comments on black obesity and he does essnetially call poor black folk out as lazy whiners). He's done it again and again - at the end of his Brown Chapel Address (Selma, Alabama on March 4, 2007), in his Father's Day speech last June and in numerous other venues and forms.I saw him do it in person on repeated occcasions when I worked on the South Side of Chicago...like one day he was up at the Urban League with the Harvard boy CEO of the Chicago Public Schools (CPS) lecturing inferior ghetto dwellers on their need to exeecise "personal reponsbility" by taking their kids to school. Didn't have anything to say about numerous racist educational practices deomcumented at length in books by Pauline Lippman, myself amd other investigators.
Your claim that Cosby-esque commentary on Obama's part would cause a media storm if only it was true is childish beyond words. You must be joking, T.S. Dominant U.S. media shares, partly enforces, and deeply approves Obama's classist commentary on poor black people.
It's a shame you can't do elementary due-diligence research on your candidate and the dominant political and media culture he inhabits and uses so well.
And then there's your bizarre claim that it is egregiously RACIST to say that the militantly bourgeois Obama criticizes poor blacks.
Damn, but how dense is that?
Also, there's no justifiable reason to stigmatize someone for being an undergraduate.
I have given you a running start for your apology note to Ms. Prince, who raised some excellent points regarding bourgeois Obamaism and one of its adherents.
You are welcome.
Don King got it, and Street is still clueless
'George Walker Bush had the most diverse cabinet of any president in the history of this nation: he had the Latinos, he had the blacks, all those who had been degraded, dehumanised and cast into a ... package of negative associations. He took those [people with] negative associations and he put them to the forefront of the nation.' http://tinyurl.com/5axhsy [FT, Published: October 25 2008]
Regarding Zmag, I can't remember if ever the front figures. i.e. Chomsky, sees Israel as an Apartheid state, and then you have two elderly men from Conservative background, or as Chomsky calls ' the establishment', write a book that you would expect to find it from the 'progressive' leftists [ http://tinyurl.com/oegp9 ]. Very strange indeed.
And I have perfectly understood Ms. Prince's brilliant assay. She is moving forward , away from the banal mentality and fairy tale which you still clinch to believe in. And I can't see what new ideas you are bringing. DuBois? His works were challenged before you entered this world.
You have hard time to understand that people don't like to be regarded as an 'horde', but as an individual, and if they transcend their social place, then it must be the duty of the state to teach them where they belong.
I believe Ralph Ellison's first chapters of Invisible Man says all what I trying to say. That a man wants to know that he exists.
thank you Mr. Street
I very much appreciate your comments on my piece as I have long admired you just as I continue to admire Mr. Wise. To everyone else, thank you for allowing my words to stimulate discussion. I hope that the focus remains on the major themes of Mr. Wise's and my essays, but since the fried chicken detail seems to be causing consternation I do want to clarify that I am referencing this incident described in the Newsweek article "The Obama Dividend" by Johnathan Alter. Quoting Mr. Alter, "But consider what happened late last month in Beaumont, Texas, when I covered Obama speaking before an African-American audience. A woman asked about health care and Obama explained how, for the first time in human history, thousands of obese children, many of them black, were being diagnosed with adult-onset diabetes—a disease that is killing millions and helping bankrupt the health-care system. He told the crowd that kids couldn't keep on "drinking eight sodas a day," then went in Bulworth's direction. "I know some of y'all got that cold Popeye's [chicken] out for breakfast. I know," Obama said with a smile. He continued: "That's why y'all laughing. You can't do that. Children have to have proper nutrition. That affects also how they study, how they learn in school … It's not good enough for you to say to your child, 'Do good in school,' and then when that child comes home, you got the TV set on, you got the radio on, you don't check their homework, there is not a book in the house, you've got the videogame playing." Instead of being jeered, he was cheered wildly.
cold chicken?
Paul Street,
I went and read the Obama speech in Selma...
There's nothing there about lazy blacks and cold chicken. What the heck are you talking about?
Mr. Street
You are such a pompous ass.
How about if I tell you that you are a pseudo-intellectual, that resorts to insults and put-downs to your lack of well reasond arguments.
You are such a farse.